Jouke de Vries on the budget cuts
‘We should collaborate more’
Door Giulia Fabrizi
By Giulia Fabrizi
Giulia Fabrizi
Van uit de hand gelopen studentenfeestjes tot bezette universiteitsgebouwen en van kamertekorten tot dreigende bezuinigingen: Giulia houdt al het nieuws in de gaten. Ze praat graag met de mensen die het aangaat, schrijft erover en begeleidt freelancers bij het maken van nieuwsartikelen. Eerder werkte ze als stadsredacteur Groningen en gemeenteverslaggever Haren voor Dagblad van het Noorden.The Lower House is about to vote on the education budget, after which we’ll finally know how universities will be affected. After Prinsjesdag, which is when the budget cuts were confirmed, board member Hans Biemans said he was ‘depressed’. What’s the mood like now?
Jouke de Vries: ‘Times are tough and the proposed budget cuts potentially have significant consequences. But we can’t keep being depressed all the time. We have to look ahead to find the way forward. I think we’ll be able to do that in our discussions on strategy at the UG.’
‘Last week, there was the protest on the Malieveld. It’s too bad that the one in Utrecht was cancelled, because I think most people from Groningen would’ve attended that one. I would have gone to the one in The Hague, but personal circumstances prevented me from going. There was quite the turnout, twenty thousand people. Seeing how committed people are empowers us to keep going.’
A few weeks ago, all the universities’ board presidents met up in Rotterdam. Education minister Eppo Bruins also dropped by. Did you have time to talk to him about the budget cuts?
Jouke de Vries: ‘He told us his plans and basically said what he’s been saying all along: the cabinet decided on these cuts and now I have to implement them. I would have liked to talk to him a bit more about the exact arguments and the best possible proposals. But we only had ninety minutes, so there wasn’t enough time.’
As board president, you’re wearing multiple hats: you represent the interests of the UG, but you and the other universities also have to band together to fight the budget cuts. Do those two roles mesh?
Jouke de Vries: ‘I’ve noticed that the sense of community has increased recently, which is nice. The UNL (umbrella organisation Universities of the Netherlands) also set up a good campaign.’
The sense of community has increased recently
‘On the other hand, the problems that were raised in Amsterdam have to be solved elsewhere. The Internationalisation in Balance act affects the regions experiencing population much more than the Randstad. While there is a sense of solidarity to help or compensate certain universities, that also leads to discussions within the organisation. I can’t deny that.’
What kind of discussions?
Jouke de Vries: ‘Where will the cuts be made? Can we or can we not help the universities affected? That’s the whole point. Together with the previous minister, we came up with the proposal for self-government. All the universities would get together and look at certain tracks, and then we’d come up with a maximum number of students on a national level. It was a great solution that the minister agreed with, so we expected the new minister to include it in his plans. But then he came up with an entirely different plan and we had to start negotiations all over again. That’s especially difficult when it’s looking like some universities will have to give up much more than others.’
This year, the universities stated they were considering taking legal action against the government, because the current education minister wasn’t honouring the previous agreements. How is that going?
Jouke de Vries: ‘We looked into it and UNL can’t do that on behalf of the universities. Every university is a legal entity on its own, so it’s up to the individual boards of directors.’
Are the universities willing to take that step?
Jouke de Vries: ‘I’m getting the impression that some of them will be taking action. A few universities are exploring the option of getting together to file a case, but first we have to see what’s going to happen this week.’
The enrolment numbers have since been announced and the UG is receiving 13 million fewer euros in government funding, since there is a 14 percent decline in enrolment from international students, reducing its market share. Does that mean other universities are the competition now?
Jouke de Vries: ‘That’s what they’ll become if we’re not careful, yes.’
What do you mean by careful? Do you think you can maintain a balance?
Jouke de Vries: ‘I think the fourteen Dutch universities should be asking themselves some basic questions about how the entire system is organised. It could be argued that universities will shrink anyway and that we should collaborate more. We have to find a way to do that – something the self-government plans accounted for – which allows each university to specialise itself.’
The call for people to consider what universities actually mean has been going around for some time. Is the UNL giving any concrete thought to this?
Jouke de Vries: ‘Certainly. But so much of their time is being taken up by political operations and lobby activities that it’s getting harder to focus on the bigger issues.’
We should be asking ourselves basic questions about the entire system
‘The question is linked to the likely shrinkage of universities. If universities become smaller, you have to work together more. You have to try and find a system like the one we proposed in our self-government plans. A system that determines which universities have which specialised programmes. But that’s fairly complicated, since universities have so much autonomy.’
‘It could also lead to situations like we used to have, with placement committees. So when people wanted to take certain courses that were only being taught in, say, Maastricht. Students could get proof of placement for Maastricht so they could take that specific course. That’s something we have difficulty accepting here in the Netherlands, because we’re so used to being able to decide for ourselves. But I do think we should set up a similar system, even though that’s all in the future for now.’
At the university, people are working on how to best deal with the cutbacks. There are several work groups, both within the university as a whole and at a faculty level. Have they come up with any interesting ideas yet?
Jouke de Vries: ‘Hans Biemans is in charge of the work groups, but I know they’re working really hard. We’ll be getting the first proposals in a little while, and if they correspond with the board’s vision, we’ll be in business pretty soon. I would love it if we could make a decision during the winter.’
Finally, what would you like to say to the people at the UG who are worried about the upcoming budget cuts and changes?
Jouke de Vries: ‘I’m a naturally optimistic person, and the law hasn’t been implemented yet, but it must be hard for the people who’ve just come to Groningen. Your partner moved here for you, your children have just started getting comfortable at school. I understand people’s concerns, but I do hope they’ll stay here. We do not intend to fire these people, but we might have to make some unfortunate decisions. People might get smaller offices, for instance, or we’ll change procedures on them. But if we can band together to keep employment up and try to minimalise the less pleasant aspects, that’s what we have to do.’