She bows low, her hands folded almost devoutly. This is how she greets people; ever since the pandemic, she’s stopped shaking hands. She looks stylish as usual, in a brown leather skirt, an elegant white blouse, and a neckerchief.

Cisca Wijmenga laughs when we point this out. ‘People often ask who dresses me. I dress myself!’

She has an hour for this final interview; it’s squeezed in between other obligations and meetings. The first female rector since the University of Groningen was founded in 1614 is in the home stretch. She’s stepping down at the end of August. That means her schedule is currently ‘insane’.

When I was a student, I had no clue who or what a rector was 

People are always asking her to attend things, and she usually says yes. That’s important, she feels: ‘The board should show interest in everything that’s going on in an organisation.’ It did mean that her own research into the immune disorder Coeliac disease, which earned her a Spinoza Prize in 2015, has been on the back burner for the last few years, even though she’d promised herself when she became rector that she’d devote at least one day a week to it.

‘Looking back at the past four years, I think quite a lot of people know who I am now. A student came up to me on the street the other day: “You’re the rector, right?” I love that students know that we have a rector and who that is. When I was a student, I had no clue.’

We present her with four statements, with which she can initially only agree or disagree. Statement 1: Being rector is the best job at the university.

Resolutely: ‘I agree.’

Two: Being rector at the UG was harder than I’d imagined.

Just as resolutely: ‘Disagree.’

Three: The police clearing students from the Academy building on April 25 was the low point of your time as rector.

She hesitates slightly, but then firmly says: ‘Disagree.’

Four: Cisca Wijmenga will be remembered as the Covid rector rather than the first female rector. 

Slightly aggrieved: ‘Disagree.’

Regarding the first statement, she says: ‘Being rector is the greatest job in the world.’ ‘I’ve met so many incredibly smart and amazing people at the university, all of them driven by curiosity, by exploring the boundaries of science, by the hope that they can improve the world. I don’t think you’ll find that anywhere else. As a rector, I’ve been able to facilitate this. I’ve been able to steer people and get them fired up, like with the strategy and founding of the schools. Even contributing a little bit is just fantastic.’

A little bit? Can you explain what you mean by that?

‘Four years ago, I said that the university is like a mammoth tanker; you can’t just change everything at once. But then I realised, if you only change a tanker’s course by a single degree, you eventually end up somewhere else. I think we’re in a very different place than we were four years ago. We’re much more focused on making connections.’

‘The pandemic has made us realise that apart from connecting people, we should also be building bridges between disciplines. That’s always been something close to my heart; to look beyond our own limits. To realise that the university has a role to play in big social issues. That can lead to new things and that’s why universities are so valuable. When can you consider something a success? That’s difficult to say, but I do think we clearly changed course.’ 

Time for statement 2: Being rector at the uni was harder than I’d imagined. We presented you with this particular statement because you once said that you’re trying to manage a university, but you were mainly just putting out fires. 

It took me a while to find my way. I wasn’t sure what to expect

‘I said that? Listen, it was really hard to imagine what being a rector was going to be like. Before I got the job, I had dinner with [previous rector] Elmer [Sterken] to get an idea of what I was in for. Back then, I was like, that sounds right up my alley. But you also have to respond to the daily realities of the job.’

‘I think the word “harder” in the statement is a bit too harsh, actually. Sure, things didn’t go the way I expected, but that’s also because the pandemic broke out six months after I started. It took me a while to find my way. I wasn’t sure what to expect and what my role was. Like, what’s my position, how do I do the best job here?’

Did that feel like putting out fires or like managing?

‘It definitely felt like managing, but at times, it felt like managing in a thick fog. No one had any idea how long the whole thing was going to last, or where it was going. Looking back, calling it a blessing would obviously be too much, but our university did gain something from the pandemic. For ten years, we’d been working on trying to utilise IT possibilities such as online education. But there was never that sense of urgency to push through, until the pandemic. If I recall correctly, our buildings shut down on a Thursday and the first online classes started on Friday.’

‘Of course there has been the occasional fire to put out. But I also feel the board of directors reached a lot of its strategic goals, such as more chairs for female professors. I was part of the inception of Ruggesteun, which provided more support to lecturers which in turn contributed to a decrease in work stress. We’re also working on a new accreditation system for student associations. When I started, there were quite a few incidents at certain clubs…’

She pauses, grins: ‘Let’s not name any names.’

Back to the statements. Number three: The police clearing out the Academy building was the low point of your time as rector. You disagreed, but not immediately.

‘Look, it was no one’s finest moment. I think we can all agree on that. I’ve seen the footage and it’s just… It doesn’t look good. It’s a shame it had to come to that, a shame that we couldn’t keep the discussion going. That incident was really difficult for the university, as well as for me. But the actual low point of the past four years was the impact of the pandemic.’

Have you contacted the students?

‘No. I talked to them during the first occupation, but they refused all communication during the second one.’

That must have had an impact.

‘I talked so much about it with my fellow rectors. Nearly every university has now had a police evacuation happen.’

What do you talk about?

‘Different things, like the kinds of procedures we have in place. We have a kind of intervision group, and it’s nice to be able to share things with them. We have a meeting every six weeks where we discuss things like this. Everyone agrees that staying overnight in a university building wasn’t an option. That was a clear boundary that everyone knew about.’

Did the evacuation constitute a new divisive element at the UG? People reacted very strongly, from different sides. Just when we thought Yantai was finally behind us…

‘We don’t use that word anymore. But that was before my time and that chapter’s closed now.’ 

Still. Division at the university?

‘Society is increasingly polarising and that has me worried. We no longer take the time to sit down and talk to each other. That’s also what happened with the Aletta Jacobs mural. People didn’t agree with the text, even though the artists had a really good reason for using it and were able to explain what it meant. Rather than talking about it, people decided to vandalise the mural.’

I would at least expect people to ask whether something is actually true

‘A university should be a place where we talk to each other. If you can’t even have a dialogue at the university, where can you? Changes like these are more than worrying. People tend to easily believe things on social media, for example, and they don’t take the time to inform themselves further. What are the facts? People should be more critical.’

Are you saying you expected more from the academic community?

‘Yes. I would at least expect people to ask whether something is actually true.’

If they had, the occupation never would have happened?

‘That’s not what I’m saying. I think the occupation was about so much more. About social issues such as inequality and climate, just like at other universities. Everything that the people occupying the steps were talking about were things that are happening at other universities, too.’

The freedom to protest is an important right. It also helps keep the organisation on its toes. But to occupy a building where things take place every day, to deliberately disrupt PhD ceremonies? That’s a whole different story. That’s going too far.’

Moving on to statement four: Cisca Wijmenga will be remembered as the Covid rector, not the UG’s first female rector.

‘That’d be a bit lame, wouldn’t it? You know, I think that in two years, we’ll have pretty much forgotten the impact Covid had on us.’

Be that as it may, but will we still remember Cisca?

She laughs: ‘I’m sure I’ll be mentioned in the history books somewhere.’

Sure, but so will Covid.

‘Covid forced me into that position. All these different things I had to deal with. It was like a crash course in how to become a rector. So many government decisions that we had to incorporate and deal with – all things that were equally urgent. However, that did mean I settled into my role really quickly. I had to rush through everything like a madwoman.’

‘I think we had a going-away ceremony for UG historian Klaas van Berkel in the auditorium on March 5, 2020. I had to tell him we could no longer shake hands. The entire room was looking at me like I was crazy! That was a week before our prime minister announced we had to stop shaking people’s hands. We were far ahead of the curve with protocols like that, the practical stuff. I also think we were the first university to genuinely shut all its buildings.’

Do you think you flourished as much as you could?

‘I think so, but perhaps I’m not the person to ask. Being a rector puts you in a unique position. You’re kind of a billboard and staying connected takes some skill. It’s not about me, it’s being visible as a board as a whole.’

Were you able to make a difference as a woman?

‘That’s a very difficult question to answer.’

Anka Mulder, board president of the Saxion University of Applied Sciences, once said: ‘I never wake up thinking what I’ll be doing that day as a woman.’

‘Neither do I. That’d be really weird. But there is a different dynamic in teams and meetings that are diverse. My motto is: you’re faster alone, but you go further together. You have to do it together, I genuinely believe that. Perhaps I’m just more aware of it. I always think: surely the men realise there are only other men in the room with them? But apparently that’s not always true.’

You have to do it together, I genuinely believe that

‘I’ve never really noticed the glass ceiling, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Every day, I realise how important role models are. I often reference Aletta Jacobs in my speeches, as she’s one of my biggest sources of inspiration. I’ve seen how important it is for young women today to have that role model, to know that they, too, can achieve things.’

In other words, the new rector should be another woman?

‘That’s not up to me. But I do think it would be a good idea. It would also keep the board of directors diverse. I don’t think there’s a single board in the Netherlands that isn’t diverse.’

You’ve always been a passionate proponent of the much-discussed scholarship PhD experiment, which some people feel is unfair. During your tenure as rector, the minister put a definitive end to it.

With conviction: ‘I’d still defend it today. I have a scholarship PhD student and this kid is so curious and driven, and he’s so happy for the opportunity. That’s why we do it, for the people who wouldn’t have any other opportunity to break into the academic world otherwise. That’s always been my defence to the university council: we’re presenting young people with an opportunity. Young people who are captivated by science and want to do something with it.’

‘It allows students to do independent research and find the answers to questions like: what does my future look like? Do they want to stay in education or would they prefer working for a business? It’s like a driver’s licence, it gives you freedom.’

Can you understand the criticism, though? People were mainly upset about the differences between scholarship PhDs and employed PhDs.

I’ve been hurtling along and it’s time to hit pause

‘Well, no. I think we worked really hard on the benefits. We created something really decent, especially in the second stage. I understand that people want more money, but they’re also getting an education. That’s extremely valuable. It’s a shame that the Netherlands decided to make PhDs employees rather than students. If they hadn’t, we wouldn’t have had this discussion.’

But that’s because other universities didn’t want to participate in the experiment, because of the inequality of it. Apart from the Erasmus University in Rotterdam and its small group of scholarship PhDs, the UG was the only institute that fully went for it.

‘Yes, because our board had the guts to do so.’

When you hand the rector’s chain to your successor in August, what will you look back on most proudly?

‘What I truly love are the interdisciplinary Schools for Science and Society, although we still have to wait and see how fast they grow. The world is becoming increasingly complex and tackling these problems will require working across disciplines, like I said. The four schools (editor’s note: the Aletta Jacobs School of Public Health, Wubbo Ockels School for Energy & Climate, Jantina Tammes School of Digital Society, Technology & AI, and the Rudolf Agricola School for Sustainable Development) deal with education, research, and impact. As board of directors, we want to focus on the future, and this is the future of the university: how can we contribute to solving those big social problems?’

Speaking of the future, what will Cisca Wijmenga do when she leaves the rector’s office for the last time in August?

‘First, I’m going to take a break. I’ve never done that before. I’ve been hurtling along for decades and it’s time to hit pause. I’m already being approached by headhunters, but I’ve been keeping them at bay. I don’t want my schedule to be full again by September 1. But I’m sure great opportunities will come knocking, so I’m not worried.’

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